Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signed an immigration bill Friday that had been criticized hours earlier by President Obama as "misguided."Well, we have been slow rolling this issue for a long time and it was bound to happen that one or another of the sovereign states would step up and take action to clean up our immigration mess, or more specifically our illegal immigration situation.
Illegal immigrants, maybe 12 million♠ in all, are a part of our economy. My buddy in Woodbridge recently built his vineyard with immigrant labor he picked up at the local 7/11 or some such hiring hall. Like the legal immigrants in our nation, that are part of the warp and woof of our economy. But, there are some issues we need to ask ourselves about:
- What do we owe to those people who have been waiting in their home nations for their number to come up so they can come to this nation and become a citizen? The man who replaced me at DRC when I retired is now a US citizen with a Top Secret clearance, but I remember when he was sworn in (at Lowell Memorial Auditorium) as a US Citizen, having retired from the Dutch Air Force and settled in this country, legally. I was the one who floated his resume when he joined us, The job was for doing a terminology study and I was asked how a Dutch person could do something about English terminology. I remember saying that since he was Dutch his English was probably better than ours. This chap has done well for himself, for his company and for his adopted nation. What if he hadn't gotten an invite to come to this nation. I remember the problems my Granddaughter's boyfriend (now Husband) had getting his Green Card. Also from the Netherlands.
- Are these "undocumented" immigrants here as economic visitors, earning money to send home or are they interested in joining us in our political process, a process that used to be seen as exceptional —American exceptionalism—although that is not a term much in favor these days. This is an important point, and one that our citizenry has worried about since Ben Franklin expressed concern that with all the German immigrants we would end up switching from speaking English to speaking German.
- Closely allied with the second question is one about what cultural changes our 12 million illegal immigrants will bring to this nation. Will we get the kind of political process that is closer to what is happening in Venezuela and Nicaragua? What about Chile and Argentina? Will the macho culture for which Latin America is famed impact our striving for equal rights for women (or what about our immigrant Muslim population and the view of the role and place of women in the minds of some from that culture).
- Do we know that all undocumented immigrants are coming here for the money? How many are coming here because of the drug violence in their old neighborhood? That raises the question as to what responsibility we have, as a nation and a citizenry, for encouraging that drug trade. And we shouldn't fool ourselves by thinking that all that drug use is in the urban ghetto. A lot of it is in middle class suburbia.
- Has anyone really done the sums on what it would take to deport 12 million people? And, if they have thought about it, have they included the disruption that would occur when the children, fully US citizens (we are not like some other nations—here if you are born here you are one of us), while the parents are not? And, who will do the jobs made vacant by sending illegal immigrants home?
- What are the long term consequences of actions such as amnesty? If we wave a magic wand and make those 12 million illegal immigrants US citizens, will that just encourage millions more to slip across the border?
There are no easy answers out there. People might think there are easy answers (a) send them all home or (b) give everyone amnesty. Both remind me of the comment by Reporter H.L. Mencken that: "For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple—and wrong.
Sadly, I don't think either party in the US Congress, or Bernie Sanders, the Democratic Socialist, are going to come up with a good solution to this problem and so we can expect more Southern Border States to take action to deal with the costs and consequences of illegal immigration. The President agrees, having noted today that if the US Congress fails to act other states besides Arizona will act.
But, so I don't sign off without any suggestions, let me propose that part of the solution could be helping the United Mexican States become more prosperous and better governed. Part of that solution might be a new "Marshall Plan", focused on Mexico. Another part might be to change the game with regard to drugs, making them no longer a path to easy money and the perversion of law enforcement and justice.♥
Regards — Cliff
♠ I just heard the President, on Television, say 11 million, but I am sticking with an even dozen.
♥ Frankly, fixing the drug issue, moving to become the drug wars, would be good for this nation if there were no illegal immigrants.
For the US, the "immigration problem" is perhaps the greatest issue on the near and long term agenda.
ReplyDeleteI for one am more than just weary of American apologizing to everyone else in the world. It was American Exceptionalism that made the USA the beacon of hope and the magnet for many seeking that hope. Now, in some pathological need for national cleansing, that exceptionalism has become a national shame. Well, shame on us. The apologists rant about all the harm we've done to the world, all the "other people" we've hurt. BS!!!!!! Our cemetaries and those of many, many, many other countries are full of our flesh and blood sacrificed on THEIR altars in the name of THEIR freedom. France, Belgium, England are home to hundreds of thousands of American youth...the best we had....that prevented Europe from becoming the Thousand Year Riech. Our medical and scientific advances have meant health and prosperity for millions.
So, "Yes!!!!" America and Americans are exceptional. We play hard and we play to win....nobody likes or respects someone who is a loser or will eagerly settle for a good solid second or third place.
If you want to come to America, fine, come....and become one of us. Heaven knows that aside from the American Indian, there is no purely "American" genetic line. We are truly an amalgamation of literally every walk of life on the planet.....and in a very strong sense...that is why America IS exceptional.
So, if we have people in the world who jump the line....just like those who race down the fast lane at twice the speed limit only to dart across three lanes to "nose in" at an exit marked by a back up three miles long, then, we need to ensure that they don't gain access unfairly. It's what has made America what it is...and has underwritten our turbulent and at times uncertain insistence on freedom. I am all for letting border states protect their borders and I am solidly convinced that the Federal government has absoluutely no political will to accomplish the necessary goals....let alone even define what they are. At the National level of political theater, there are too many self-serving political agendas. Nancy Pelosi for instance would throw open the Mexican border and make everyone an instant citizen just by the act of hopping over the line. Of course, she is looking for committed votes. At the state level, I don't believe you will find that sort of political protectionism w/r immigration.
Drugs?? Well, the US IS the problem. We are the market...and the market is good. It is good because our efforts to eliminate it are so weak and ineffectual as to be laughable. Our DEA is like an ant trying to stem an elephant stampede. Our Border Patrol has a clear message from the Federal government to only catch and release. If you shoot one of the drug lords, you end up in prison.
And inside the country, we need to get much tougher on drug use. Prison is not the answer....I would suggest however a very large and well managed public service penalty. Put them in pink onesies and make them paint bridges, public buildings, clean up roadsides, dig ditches..sort of a modern day CCC for drug abusers. For those who distribute them, if they are illegals, deport them instantly. If they are American, life in prison. And we have plenty of places to build more prisons.....and it represents jobs.....
Arizona is to be congratulated for taking its problem by the horns and dealing with it. It is called "states rights" and part of being a free country. If you don't like AZ.....go live in NV...or MA.....
Someone I know sent along this breakdown on illegal immigrants. This person is a retired FSO (Foreign Service Officer), with broad experience in Latin America.
ReplyDelete"There are approximately 11.9 million illegals in
the US (probably many more). The best figures are that 69% are from Mexico, 9% from El Salvador, 8% from Guatemala, 4% from the Philippines, and 5% each from Honduras and India."
This person then goes on to say: "States have an obligation to their legal residents, and executives at all levels of government are obligated to uphold the law."
I admit to being surprised by the 5% from India. s; And, somewhere in there are the illegal Chinese, although many of them may be going to Canada.
Regards — Cliff
From another source, here is the link to the new Arizona law.
ReplyDeleteRegards — Cliff
Many of the "non-Mexican" illegals are students who arrived on a student visa to study at our excellent universities are markedly cheaper prices....and then never went home.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that at least some of the Chinese "students" are government plants....for future use.
Cliff,
ReplyDeleteThis diary does not pass the "global test."
And what is "the Global Test"?
ReplyDeleteRegards — Cliff
It's a test of legitimacy.
ReplyDeleteBtw, The AZ Governor has issued an Executive Order that pulls the reigns back on this bill.
http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/EO_201009.pdf
Her statement, below. She goes out of her way to assert her love and respect for humanity. I guess she doesn't want the "Archie Bunker" brand that is going around.
Let me be clear, though: My signature today represents my steadfast support for enforcing the law — both AGAINST illegal immigration AND against racial profiling.
This legislation mirrors federal laws regarding immigration enforcement.
Despite erroneous and misleading statements suggesting otherwise, the new state misdemeanor crime of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document is adopted, verbatim, from the same offense found in federal statute.
I will NOT tolerate racial discrimination or racial profiling in Arizona.
Because I feel so strongly on this subject, I worked for weeks with legislators to amend SB 1070, to
strengthen its civil rights protections.
That effort led to new language in the bill, language prohibiting law enforcement officers from “solely
considering race, color, or national origin in implementing the requirements of this section…”
The bill already required that it “shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws
regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and respecting the privileges and
immunities of United States citizens.”
While the general protection was already included, I believe the issue is so important, we needed to
make it CRYSTAL clear.
And I believe that we need to more than simply inscribe it in statute.
Words in a law book are of no use if our police officers are not properly trained on the provisions of SB 1070, including its civil rights provisions.
http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/PR_042310_StatementByGovernorOnSB1070.pdf
What "diary" and who made this "global test" the standard for legitimacy? Unfortunately, in today's overly legalistic society, truth is whatever a talking head says it is, the REAL truth lost in the opening interpretations of what is. And, if one tries to focus on the "is" then some wiseasss comes along and says something like "Depends on what is, is." The current band in power have taken this to a high science so that the world of Alice in Wonderland seems normal and mundane.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't strike me that the AZ governor has issued an executive order backing off of anything. She made a "clarifying" statement to the press. The law stands. Of course, the District of Corruption has their panties in a knot because someone outside of their little imaginary circle of elite power has done something the didn't mandate. Sort of takes the political ball out of their hands.
I personally hope that more states take independent actions to govern their own citizens. It's called "states rights" and is enshrined in the Constitution.....although the revisionists and "living document" apostles will say flatly that the states have no rights when the Fed is involved.
When you can't get emergency medical care in AZ because the ER's are clogged with our "southern brothers and sisters" getting state paid free care, its time to put the house in order. When I was in Tucson a few years ago doing work at the Air Operations Center there, the downtown area after dark was worse than the main drag in Juarez and English was definitely "the second language."
And now, its reached places like Nashua, NH where punky latinos slink around the city's streets and have turned one area into a little Tijuana...and violence is a daily routine.
It is why I keep a loaded 17 round .40 S&W semi-auto XD-M next to my loaded 7 round modified 12 ga...both right next to my bed......and why....when I drive around the local area.....north of the PRMA border....I have a loaded 9mm, 11 round Glock in my waist holster.
Enough!!!!!
Don't forget mercenary, black ops goons that killed JFK.
ReplyDeleteThings go bump in the night, Neal.
Strap on your Depends and keep your guns close.
yes Jack...things do go bump in the night. I don't plan to watch some freaked out scumbag abuse my wife or worse..or try to relieve me of my possessions because he or she thinks their entitled. In Nam, I learned one thing.....if you are going to die...you take as many of them with you. I am not one who sees danger behind every bush....but I know that danger is a growing reality. So, you are free to do what you think is right for you....and I'll do the same for me.
ReplyDeleteDon't need Depends. Nothing scares me that badly.
I don't know what book you read that says that mercenary black ops goons killed JFK.....but if they did.....they aren't the problem facing the average American on Main Street. JFK decided he was "too big to fail" and forgot who he was indebted to and who REALLY runs the Big Top.
Sarcastic ridicule may be a wonderful jounalistic methodology.....but I learned long ago to not let it affect my beliefs and actions. Sorry Jack...it just doesn't work for me.
I read blogs:
ReplyDelete(bold mine)
BTW....it was Ike who expressed extreme fears about the MIC....which was fully supported by the Democrats of the day. JFK was a strong proponent of it as it provided the means of paying for a bigger central government. Of course, he turned renegade on the business community and became much more interested in his "legacy" (sound familiar??) than his obligations to the real oligarchs who run the show. They disposed of him. LBJ was more interested in his Great Society which demanded a much bigger central government and when the MIC was given short shrift via the war in SEA with LBJ wanting to bail out and pay for more Great Society, he was shown two pictures....the door to the street.....and JFK's grave. He took the street.
http://right-side-of-lowell.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-too-long.html
You've been spoutin' some really screwball stuff.
Oh, for a minute there I was confused. I thought Jack's comment was about something I had posted, rather than something that was in a comment, which I tend to allow to run on.
ReplyDeleteBut, regarding the MIC, the Military-Industrial Complex, we should always keep in mind that the other component of that is the Academic Community, which provides research for the military, which is funded by the US Congress. It has moved to becoming another serious pork barrel area.
As for the concept of "Global Test", I am thinking that as far as immigration goes, legal and illegal, the US is ahead of many nations. It was only ten years ago that Germany began offering citizenship to the Gastarbeiter, the Turkish Guest Workers, some of whom had been in Germany since the 1960s. Switzerland is not very liberal when it comes to immigration. Other nations also have restrictions or currently or in the recent past have taken actions to deny entry, including the Chinese with regard to the people from the DPRK and Thailand with regard to Viet-namese refugees after Saigon became Ho Chi Minh City.
Put up against the rest of the world for comparison, I suspect the US does pretty well.
Regards — Cliff
I think that you should or could expand your comment on "academia" in the MIC to include the proliferation of "think tanks" which have become bigger business than big business.
ReplyDeleteGee Jack, in your snip of my blog comments regarding JFK and his "evolution" I don't see any reference to "mercenary, black ops" folks. So obviously you don't read blogs accurately. And what on earth does any of that have to do with the thread??
George Will made some excellent points regarding the AZ law, its necessity, the difficulty of enforcement, and the illogic of some of the arguments made against its implementation. The Federal government has failed abysmally in the enforcement of immigration law already on the books....by refusing to fund the resources necessary for the job. So, criticizing AZ for doing what the Federal side refuses to do is a complete non-starter.
To be perfectly clear, the Governor's "executive order" simply states that enforcement is mandatory and enforcement by racial profiling is illegal and will not be tolerated.
@Cliff, Lady Liberty binds us.
ReplyDelete@Neal, I certainly took creative license with your conspiracy theory. You used other words to assert that an evil American cabal snuffed JFK and then coerced LBJ into not seeking a second term.
It's out there, yo.
It is relevant, btw. As you blurt out your arms inventory based on a perception that you are at risk from assualt and attack from some boogeyman with a funny accent.
-------------------------------
What the AZ Gov did was stall operational implementation of this bill, requiring peace officers to undergo "approved" training.
This could be construed as a shrewd move by the Gov. because she knows busting the balls of voters in the lead up to an election is bad mojo.
For every US Citizen that gets hassled, there will be a story. Some will make it to the media. Those will be sensationalized to sell copy. But most will just be told from parent to child, sibling to sibling, cousin to cousin, ect.
Every mistake made by good cops with the best intentions will be comingled with the hateful perpertrations by the few rednecked assholes with a badge.
She stalled the negative impact on her party. We will see if it is too little too late.
Sherrif Joe must have done the "approved" training before she said that they had to have the training, because he is already taking action. I doubt the guv will stop him....DOJ couldn't...didn't...too politically explosive.
ReplyDeleteJack, Jack, Jack.........now you know that I didn't say a word about being threatened by a "boogyman with a funny accent." In fact, I didn't even address a conversation with him/her/it. Too many years in the service of the country taught me that when the fight starts, if you have to get ready, you are already beaten. I don't lose easily....or well.
On the MSM news this evening, they showed clips of "protesters" and many of the "pro-" folks sure looked Latino to me. Gee, could it be?? BTW....nearly 1/3 of the AZ population speaka da Spanish. That isn't much different than my first grade class in the Yakima valley of WA state. In fact, I had only one "white kid" as a playmate.....all the rest of "our gang" were Mexican or Yakima Indian. We had a wonderful time playing cowboys and indians....around that time was when we had the Lone Ranger and Tonto....and the Cisco Kid.....guess we just didn't know any better.
One last little historical fact. You are improperly using the label "red neck." It doesn't refer to southerners or bubbas as you imply. Red necks were West By God Virginian coal miners who wanted to unionize the mine workers in southern WV, a section that was run exclusively by Big Money....and the origin of the Company Store sung about by Tennessee Ernie. Several thousand of them moved on that stronghold...armed as best they could be...each wearing a red bandana around his neck so that they could tell miners from the hired thugs with the Big Coal Companies. The big money bought their "enforcers" automatic weapons, grenades, canon, and mortars. In the end, Warren Harding sent in Federal troops to quell the war.
By the 1900's Red neck referred to dirt poor southern farmers, and eventually as a slur against whites by blacks. By the 1970s, the term had turned into offensive slang and had expanded its meaning to mean bigoted, loutish and opposed to modern ways, and was often used to attack Southern conservatives and segregationists.
Sympathies on both ends.
ReplyDeleteIllegals get exploited, go after those who exploit them (i.e. companies). Bigger penalties for those who traffic and benefit from it. Never want to see anyone, ultimately being kept as a slave or be in unsafe situations. If one comes here illegally without documentation, how can we honestly keep them safe when they come here as an underground segment of our population?
I think we should make a bigger effort on those who come here legally, but never leave. I think Kerry Healy back in 06 wanted to make a law, that a person's drivers license expires the day their Visa expires. Also I was in favor of denying illegals in-state tuition, they're not children they're adults. If they're illegal how can then they legally work in Massachusetts after college graduation?
The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposed the measure, even though many law enforcement unions and advocacy groups supported it.
ReplyDeleteJohn Thomas, a lobbyist for the Association of Chiefs of Police, said rural communities would be harmed disproportionately if residents are allowed to file lawsuits against cities or counties that do not enforce of federal immigration law. Many of those communities are small and do not have the ability to defend the suits, much less pay court costs and hefty fines if they lose.
“They may not have an attorney,” he said. “They barely have (enough) police.”
He suggested changing the bill to allow such suits to only be filed by county attorneys or the attorney general.
http://azcapitoltimes.com/blog/2010/02/24/sanctuary-cities-bill-ready-for-debate-on-house-floor/
Can't wait for the "Westboro Baptist Church"es of the anti-immigration world to figure out the smorgasbord of tax payers dollars that have been laid out to feast from.
This law will make AZ a laughing stock. Don't forget, they were the last state to honor MLK.
So, moving on to Jack's comment about Arizona being the last state to honor MLK, is that a putdown of the people in Arizona? Do they lack dignity because of this?
ReplyDeleteDoes the fact that 3.5% of the people in Arizona are Black (vs 29.6% Hispanic) impact this? Would not a day honoring Cesar Chavez be more appropriate for Arizona, even though Mr Chavez is mostly associated with California's Central Valley, but then a lot of folks in Arizona are about agriculture and he did organize the UFW.
Besides, wasn't it really New Hampshire that was the last state to recognize the holiday? At least that is what the NYT preaches, but then it might just be prejudice against the "live free or die" set, a vanishing breed now found mostly close up against the Canadian border.
Regards — Cliff
The MLK thing gets fuzzy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr._Day
ReplyDeleteIt was passed in NH as "Civil Rights Day" in 1991, but was not a paid holiday. It was passed in AZ in 1992.
In 1999, NH made it a paid holiday.
I'm not sure what you mean by Chavez. It's like your suggesting MLK Day was done to appease blacks, as opposed to honoring what MLK stood for?