Tuesday, April 30, 2013

Where Is The Gun Violence in the US

For John, BLUFGun violence high in Obama voting areas.  Nothing to see here; just move along.

The InstaPundit sends us to "Dems love guns.  No, really.  Stop laughing."  A comparison of two maps, same area, different stats, same general picture.

Regards  —  Cliff


kad barma said...

The thought that first occurs to me is how the disparity between US and UK gun violence rates can be fully explained by the number of high-population urban areas in the two countries. (I.e. the UK has extremely few, and we have a lot). It's pretty clear from the maps here that the pro-Obama voting patterns are correlated to those same high-population urban areas as well, and, hence, we can write convenient and spurious headlines about the logical fallacy that can be created from the coincidence.

Lefties who refuse to acknowledge the link between urban crime and handgun violence are actually working against themselves and their aim to reduce gun deaths. Unless and until our gun control efforts are focused on removing guns from the hands of criminals, very little will improve. I think that's the cynical and cheeky point the authors were trying to support, but, geez, can we just call things what they are?

And, as for righties, two common channels for guns used by criminals are straw purchases and gun shows, and the "leakiness" of both would be improved by proposed background checks. (Unfortunately and currently stymied by Senate intransigence). I think both sides would do well to grab a clue.

Neal said...

I just LOVE that term "straw purchase" when it comes to guns. What exactly does that mean? Really. AND...by definition....how does ANYONE propose to curb or stop them? Criminals get their guns via straw purchases....in fact...that is the ONLY means of doing so. You send an emissary to me the guy with the gun...money changes hands....the gun comes home. What sort of lunacy suggests that the Federal government is going to regulate that. If criminals don't register their guns today.....what makes anyone think they are going to by eliminating "straw" purchases.

The anti-gun people assail "gun shows" as a place where illegal purchases can be made. Based on WHAT proof??? This is one more great urban legend. A handful of guys meet to sell their guns. Is THAT a gun show? No. But...the anti-gun gurus claim it is. The highly advertised, well attended gun shows ARE VERY WELL managed. They HAVE to be.....because each one is CRAWLING with BATF agents...and others. OH....maybe the FEDS aren't able to do their jobs then?

kad barma said...

Some strenuous research has been put against the early reports that gun show guns (guns sold by private individuals at shows generally occur without checks, and these are not as rare as apologists would like to attest) don't show up within a few months and a few miles in crime stats. As this response rightly points out, guns used illegally tend to travel some distance from their point of legitimate purchase, and lie dormant for some years before they are used in a crime.

Yes, larger shows are well-managed, and the purchases there largely legitimate. My point and the one righties should respect is that all sellers should have to confirm the licensing of their buyers, and this does not happen today.


kad barma said...

And, to be clear: I am NOT advocating for a "gun control" bias in our laws, nor am I suggesting we consider any process that might leave open the possibility of a registry of any kind. I am a 2nd amendment believer, and a proud gun owner. The proposal I've seen which makes perfect sense to me is that private sales be recorded/vetted via registered dealers, who keep only whatever residual paperwork is necessary to confirm the check, but do NOT pass any of the information upstream. It would be like local gas stations doing your car inspection, with the responsibility to ensure the car is safe at the time of inspection and nothing more. The paperwork is there should law enforcement need to look at it (with proper warrant, NOT simple subpoena) and everybody else is on notice that selling a firearm carries as much responsibility as discharging it for where the bullets eventually fly.

No, this will not stop everything. But it will give pause to some, and reduce the flow and availability of unregistered and untracked firearms to a degree I am satisfied will be measurable. I'm not talking about saving every individual. I'm just talking about common sense. Guns kill the same way they protect We The People from tyranny. (That "home defense" canard always offends me--that's a convenience, but NOT the point of the 2nd amendment, and people are losing that thread and we're at constant risk of losing our liberty because of it).

C R Krieger said...


I think you hit on it with the issue of the "gun registry".  My understanding is that those writing the law became just a little too cute and left in language that suggested a gun registry.  I am all for expanding the background check program.  Like you, I am against the idea of putting in building blocks for a gun registry.  Any law needs to have provisions to prevent that, including fines and possible jail time for officials at any level who create a gun registry, in whole or in part.  Big fines for big collections of information about US Citizens and their guns.

I am not convinced the proposed legislation which went down to defeat in the US Senate provided what the People want.

Regards  —  Cliff

Neal said...

To be clear, my comment above was not critical of anything that Kad said. I am with him 100% on each of his points.

I think the recent legislation died because folks just flat out don't trust Congress and they wrote to their representatives telling them their political careers depended on a "No" vote. Frankly, I have almost zero faith that any bill passed is clean and above board. When you produce literary monstrosities like the ACA and this gun bill.....even someone with a single digit IQ knows it is full of stuff we won't know about until we pass it into law.

There is a great deal of cognitive dissonance in both camps. Sadly, an honest dialogue is just not possible today with all the "fringies" interjecting not only hyperbole but outright lies and exaggerations. I am irritated with the NRA (and I am a life member) because I think there is much that they could do to shape a desirable outcome to this issue.....and they refuse to do so. They do a great disservice to their membership...but more...to the American public.

Calmer heads need to prevail.