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Friday, March 8, 2013

Filibuster Followup

For John, BLUFMethadras said...Political cowards inhabit the Senate from both sides.  Nothing to see here; just move along.

I quote a post from the Althouse blog.

Senators who find it hard to explain why they didn't stand with Rand.

HuffPo inquires:

"I don't know, there's a lot of debates I don't join that I agree -- I've got stuff to do and was doing a lot of other things," Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) told HuffPost when asked about his whereabouts the day before. "I think the question should be answered. I think [Sen.] Paul was generally right on it."

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) [said] "I'm working right now on many, many, other issues... Presumably you go down on the floor because you believe in something"... though he argued that the method Paul used to raise his questions and his timing weren't "particularly constructive."

Like Professor Althouse says, weak.  Including Senators McCain and Graham.

NOTE:  Local Lowell reference in the Comments at the Althouse blog:

"I heard my mom calling me for dinner".
It was Wednesday.
Prince Spaghetti day!
Regards  —  Cliff


Jack Mitchell said...

The Honorable Rand Paul
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator Paul:
It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: “Does the president have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on U.S. soil?” The answer to that is no.

Eric H. Holder, Jr.

C R Krieger said...

It was like pulling hen's teeth.

Regards  —  Cliff

Jack Mitchell said...

The thing with 'assisting" Rand Paul, is that he suffers from 'broken clock syndrome.'

It is difficult for folks of good reputation and standing to rally with a charlatan. Most certainly, Sen.Paul has brought attention to a grave matter. But, he is a leper, by his own hand.

For those of you gushing about Sen. Rand Paul's filibuster, please consider that he may have been motivated, at least in part, to step on this developing story.
Revealed: Pentagon's link to Iraqi torture centres
Exclusive: General David Petraeus and 'dirty wars' veteran behind commando units implicated in detainee abuse

Neal said...

Anyone who actually believes that Holder believes the answer is "No" is a fool. Of course Obama, et al, think that they can use weaponized drones to shoot Americans on American soil. Why are they upping that capability and seeking ways to "legalize" it? And do you think that there is any relationship between Holder's charade and Big Sis's purchase of nearly 3000 MRAP vehicles for the DHS? Or a little over a billion rounds of JHP ammunition....enough to shoot every living American 10 times? "OH...we just need those rounds to practice." For what Sis??? You going to start a war???

As for the "developing story". Really??? Is there anyone who doesn't think that the Pentagon HAD to be involved and that Dandy Dave was central to its...uh...execution??? I can't believe that is any sort of revelation. As for "commando units implicated in detainee abuse" again.....huh???? Combat is not nice. Killing folks is not nice...but if you are going to fight a war or "other conflict" against someone, you had better be prepared to do what is necessary to win. Only in Hollyweed and the minds of idealists are their "good guys" and "bad guys" in warfare. If you get your hands on an enemy, and you think that he or she knows something that will keep you...or your associates from being killed....and the enemy person doesn't want to just volunteer the persuade them to do so.....and if they hate you enough to resist your persuasive ratchet it up. And spare the argument that if we "mistreat" prisoners it increases the likelihood that they will mistreat our folks if captured. mean like the Japanese prison camps of WWII...or Hanoi Hilton....or loosing one's head to some raghead? Gee...maybe we shoulda been more polite.

War is not for sissies. It is ugly...inhuman.....rough.....dirty.....impolite.....and everything bad about the human condition.....and you win it when you kill more of them than they kill of you. least that USED to be the principle. Today we just "fight for the peace."

C R Krieger said...

For Jack—for several days I have avoided reading the Guardian article.  It is, after all, The Guardian.  I usually only read Polly Toynbee.  I think the article is very high level and full of innuendo.  Do people torture other people?  Of course they do.  Is it effective?  No.  Do most of us think it is effective?  Yes.

That Senator Paul was motivated to talk to step on the Guardian article seems far fetched.  More likely it was to suppress an expose on halitosis.

On the other hand, after years of complaints about Republicans not being willing to actually get up and "do" a filibuster, but just threaten to force a cloture vote, I thought it was refreshing to have someone actually get up and talk.  Even if it was some ignorant person from Appalachia.

As for Neal, I thought it was 2,000, not 3,000 vehcile.

As for having said "No" once, I think it does, in our nation, mean that changing that answer would draw condemnation, even from Democrats, at least those on the left side of left.  My cynicism is not so great that I don't believe that there is a strong streak out there in both parties to support human rights.  That said, I am surprised that the issue of the Internment of Japanese, Italians and Germans after Pearl Harbor did not come up.

Regards  —  Cliff

Jack Mitchell said...

I wouldn't limit Rand Paul's objective to stepping on a specific print edition. The story will persist. (Although, many Americans tire of tales of Abu Ghraib, etc. They want to forget.)

If I'm pulling the strings of Paul the Younger, I'd use the hillybilly gynocologist to ratchet up the high dudgeon.

It's hard to get worked up about Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld torturing a 'raghead' or 100; if POTUS is sending drones to Ruby Ridge.

The short version goes, "Bush Bad. Obama Worse."

Except Bush DID allow torture and Obama hasn't launched a drone strike against the Westboro Baptist Church or RNC HQ.

Oddly, GOPers and other hysterians, seem to confuse this minor detail.

How is that McCain can keep it straight?

Neal said...

I'm not sure that McCain even knows what day of the week it is any longer. Bless his heart, he paid dearly for his years in the HH and his current state is symptomatic of it.

While it is true that Obama hasn't unleashed thunder from above on poor unsuspecting Americans...Ruby Ridge excepted.....we can't be certain about what else he may....or may not have done....or even wants to do. Guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

I cede the possibility of 2000 rather than 3000, but even at that.....why? What for??? We KNOW it isn't for border patrol or ICE raids. One can only guess.

Jack Mitchell said...

Wow. In aid to Rand Paul, Neal throws John McCain under the bus.

Good thing we didn't elect Mccain POTUS? Or, is the position that an addled McCain is better than an astute Obama?

C R Krieger said...

I don't think that is the "either/or".  I believe Senator McCain to be more frustrated than addled.  As for President Obama, we have yet to find out if he is astute.  At this point I would say he has been politically agile.

I would like to give a shout out to Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon.

Reards  —  Cliff

Neal said...

Actually Jack, any "aide" given to Rand Paul by me is a misconception. Like Obama, Paul is too full of himself and like his father, an extremist of the psychotic degree.

My view of the filibuster is that it differs from Senatorial floor speeches only in terms of length. In terms of content, it is all nonsensical self adoring blabber. We would be much better off in our national management if like monks, the Senatorial oath contained a vow of silence.

Blinded by the light, deceived by the blight, the American people have allowed their Congress to become so ineffectual and intransigent in their self absorption that I believe the only way back to a minimal semblance of operational utility is to abandon the entire mess and start all over from scratch.

When I view the Congress in its obscene entirety, I am driven to think of "The Enemy Within."

I was momentarily encouraged and openly overjoyed when one of McCain's "visits to the little people" was broadcast. Talk about a room full of pissed off patrons...and yet....Magnificant McCain did not seem to let it faze him. I think there is a message there.

The folks who have made their life in Federal Fairyland have been telling each other lies about so many things for so long that they wouldn't recognize the truth if it was in bold letters. Honesty, integrity, morality.....check them at the door when you become "KEY PERSONNEL" in the Royal Court.

As an example of how hackneyed this are.....Obama shuts down tours of the WH because the sequester makes them "unaffordable" but has made no such reduction in the super extravagant travel/vacation lifestyle he openly enjoys along with the FLOTUS and the FCOTUS's.
His little round of golf with Tiger coast over $1M of the taxpayers money. It is telling when Obama tells people that "a real problem is that people think that Medicare money is theirs." Wow...who knew????